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| TazLee |
 Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:28 pm |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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PheeBay Supporter
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 53
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What’s happening to the online auction world?
This is a very serious question. Lets take a look at the current activity.
I wil start with Ebay, all sorts of talk and activity has centred around this online Powerhouse.
Continual fee hikes, it was inevitable that Ebay’s growth curve would start to flatten out one day, the logical thing to do when this happens to squeeze more money out of the existing members so that at least the bottom line doesn’t flatten out or dip.
More interestingly though an emphasis seems to be coming where “Buy it Now” is being pushed to the front. (Ebay Express) In the past it was the members pulling this feature rather than Ebay pushing it, remember Ebay recognised weaknesses in their system by 2000 and purchased Half.com to plug this gap as it was quicker to buy them than to build their own system. Are Ebay thinking that the online auction format has had its day?
Then I look at the PSU table http://www.powersellersunite.com/auctionsitewatch.php and notice some strange things happening.
Overstock have plummeted over the past week or so. I believe due to policy changes and the removal subscriptions and their MIM policy (make it mine). Overstock are retailers in themselves, so have they decided online auctions are finished?
QXL, just don’t seem to bother these days, a great looking site, they were going in the UK before Ebay.co.uk but look at their performance! They are a PLC.. maybe different rules apply that I don’t understand.
Mighty Bids. I have no Idea what has happened there, from hundreds of thousands of auctions to 3500 as of today!
Epier, A long time established venue, just stagnant.
Bidville, Big numbers over 1million listings, Great stuff.... 800,000 are trading cards http://browse.bidville.com/browse/?index=6&cid=16&cn=Sports+%26+Memorabilia
Nothing wrong in this, but a more specialist niche than a contender for Ebay.
Yahoo. I have no idea what is happening with their numbers, in the morning its 1 million in the afternoon its 500,000 or vice versa! Maybe a PSU glitch.
I could bore you with this forever, I just don’t understand what is happening with some of these existing venues. Its hardly surprising Ebay are not concerned about competition yet. We need to openly discuss this, we need to establish where the online auction world is today and where it is going tomorrow, and then collectively address the situation. There is enough experience within the members of this forum to make some sense out of all this.
If we can establish the current state of play and suspected future,
from a venues point of view,
from a sellers point of view
from a buyers point of view
and from a fraudsters point of view!
Then we will have accomplished something. I think it is time we put this independent forum to the sort use that the makers wanted. To create not just an area for debate but a facility for experts to solve problems together and come up with a solution, and we are all experts. Maybe it’s a big ask. But until we know what the state of play is today, and what we expect it to be tomorrow we can’t move forward with a solid plan in mind.
It may sound like I am criticising the venues mentioned above, I am not criticising I am just trying to work out what has happened, they are long established venues and should have had a foothold by now. My opinion is that groups like Ebay Core, PSU, etc… are good as they prove a need for change and prove that this is both passionate and required by large numbers of people. But the time has come for us to be constructive together.
All I suggest is let us stop spending time saying, Ebid do this better than Tazbar, Tazbar do this better than Wagglepop, and so on…. Lets try to pull our experienced minds together and analyse what the future needs to hold. Then people like myself, the guys at Ebid, Hibidder, and so on can learn from that and move forward. Pheebay has kindly given us a focal point to discuss this, I won’t be posting this on our forum. That is not being disrespectful to our valued members it is purely down to the fact that Pheebay can be a hub of experience that is more likely to talk openly in an independent environment away from each persons favoured venue forum.
Excuse me if I have come over as a little bit aggressive or opinionated. This is not intentional, but I see a lot of experience here that could collectively be very constructive and valuable. Let’s not waste this.
In conclusion, the question is this.
“What are your opinions on the observations made above and where do you see the future of online auctions, in both auction format and Instant Purchase format, plus any thoughts on the way to stamp out the villains and fraudsters that mar the efforts and trust of honest people.”
Thank you for reading this.
Regards
Lee |
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| damaradeaella |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:45 pm |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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Admin
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 1086
Location: USA
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Thank you for posting what needed to be said, maybe aggressive, but in a good way, and reality is reality...
I too have noticed the PSU numbers and myself was wondering what happened?
This truly is a pinnacle time for what we have come to call "st elsewhere's"... I look forward to reading and contributing to the responses to this important thread...
Thank you for bringing this element to Pheebay, you're right on about what this forum is here for... |
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| iwac |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:05 pm |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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Full Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 285
Location: UK
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Firstly a round of applause for raising this, i couldn't really find the right way to put this across.
Firstly my observations are these,
The online auction community in the form of the 'Big Guys' is slowing down, and I can only imagine that it is down to these factors,
1) They worked hard to build thier site up from the start. Then when the sellers realised that there was not enough buyers they either slowed the auctions they had or shut up shop completely. Resulting in lose of sellers and when the buyers finaly came round there was nothing there to buy.
2) They did not do enough to police thier site to stop the fraudsters and sellers selling fakes and replicas. Therefore appearing to be a bad place to use. i say bad place as when i look at these sites I see 'Suspended ebay users'. This certainly put me off.
3) they didn't upgarde or update thier site software/script enough then when they did it was 'too late' to do any constructive advertisinfg either through media or on the net.
Resulting in seeing nothing new.
4) The sellers themselves never did enough to help these alteernatives. People still think it is totally upto the auction site to promote the products on the site, it is to an extent, but the seller must also take responsibilty as the more they advertse thier own products the more sale they will get. That is just pur common sense.
Whaich brings me to my last thought. These 'big guys' have lost pure and simple common sense,
I mean there is no good getting the buyers in if th sellers are not there.
No point starting any form of advertising if the site is not either fully operational or working properly (my own experiance)
No good having terms & conditions if you dont obide by them yourself as a site. i.e. No replicas. and letting people sell them. ( I have started to stamp them from the start)
All in all I can see that the core root for these problems is Bad Managment OR The managment has lost the heart to carry on and are waiting for someone to buy them out.
As for 'Where the market is heading' i think that these larger sites are starting to crumble at the base IMO, therefore it gives the rest of us a chance, for example Tazbar has stormed the first 6 months since opening and as far as i can see you are doing all the right things, KEEP this up forever and you will match ebay. But if any of the above start to apply to you then shake your head, rethink your strategy and carry on.
The market is wide open for us St Elsewhere site. |
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| Junkyardjims |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:05 pm |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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Admin
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 1130
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Ditto.
Well said Lee. An excellent and much needed thread. I'll post my essay in a bit!  |
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| 0ctavias0fferings |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:12 pm |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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Admin
Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 7936
Location: Highlands of Scotland
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Hi Lee and thanks for coming to us with your question / research.
I have a feeling that, having sucked a lot of individuals into the online auction market, ebay is now almost killing the idea of online auctions.
It is 'achieving' this in several different ways -
1 lousy customer services who don't help anyone very much
2 enabling scammers to persist on the site
3 continually raising fees thus cutting out the sellers of lower value items
and I could probably come up with more but I didn't get enough sleep last night 
The biggest problems facing any online auction venue as a result, are consumer confidence and the matter of disillusionment in sellers' minds, reinforced by ebay's constant claim to be THE online marketplace.
It wouldn't surprise me if a survey of ebay sellers showed that 50% were unaware that there are other auction sites on which they can sell, ebay has convinced so many they are the only one.
I have noted that many sellers simply give up their businesses altogether rather than looking to develop other avenues of selling whenever ebay drop their latest bombshell. Thus sellers are disappearing from the marketplace altogether, possibly because they believe that all venues will be the same.
I think it's important for other auction venues to try and work together to counteract this public face of the online auction world and perhaps to that end, some joint advertising would be beneficial. Certainly I believe that any online auction venue absolutely needs to advertise to potential buyers and sellers, emphasising the safeguards etc which are in place on their sites and the benefits they offer.
I have personal experience of talking to people who have been ripped off on ebay for varying sums and they state they will never buy from online auctions again. This must be echoed across the globe.
It is of utmost importance to re-establish the trust and, dare I say, sense of excitement which is there in other auction venues in the public mind.
In order to do so, effective safeguards need to be in place and the public needs to be educated to potential dangers. The threat from scammers is the prime concern but there are other ways of cheating people and perhaps the time has come when a seller promoting more than one auction for, say, a Chloe bag should be asked to provide proof that their multiple listings of designer goods are genuine.
There may be billions of potential buyers out there but for every one scammed there will be several friends and relatives who will also not touch ebay now, it doesn't take a genius to work out that pretty soon you've lost massive tracts of the potential market.
Sadly ebay has never worked this out and therefore many other sites are suffering (I strongly suspect) because of ebay's appalling behaviour.
There are no absolute guarantees that you will not be ripped off - hey, I was 'ripped off' by a well known DIY outlet which had been placing faulty - probably returned - goods back on their shelves for sale - ok, we were only talking lightbulbs but ... and it wasn't worth the busfare to go take them back!
But I digress. I do believe there is still a huge demand and public interest in online auctions where the buyer has the potential of finding that absolute gem of a bargain or that something which brings back special memories (otherwise I would have given all my assorted stock to the charity shop by now ). The trick will be bringing that elusive 'magic' back to the marketplace and one thing is for sure, ebay don't know how.
Maybe there are some other auction venues online who would group together, not as branches of one venue, but more like a guild to promote the whole idea of honest trading through a joint advertising budget?
My opinion and there will be more from me once others have given their opinions.
Again, thank you for this Lee. |
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| iwac |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:29 pm |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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Full Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 285
Location: UK
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Round of applause octavia.
You hit the nail on the head. I have said a few times that ''w'e need to pull together in some form to
1) Show people that ther is alternatives.
2) That they are safe
and finaly
3) to show ebay that they are NOT the only marketplace.
I already have an idea
Maybe we can get a home page like say stelswhere.net and have as many as possible on it like tazbar, IWAC, Hibidder, ebid etc etc and it can be put across as
' try the safer options to buy and sell online' 
And have small banners for each site equally in a line with a link in the banner leading to a 'site description' page that would contain a link. 
Just a thought. |
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| iwac |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:40 pm |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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Full Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 285
Location: UK
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| with reference to my 'Stelswhere.net' idea. it should also contain links for advice and info on scams etc before the actual page containing the auction sites is presented to them. |
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| sunray |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:45 pm |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 6689
Location: UK
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A cracking post Lee, certainly got my grey matter throbbing!
I don’t entirely agree that the auction format is dead, but it has certainly wilted from the good ol’ bdding war days on eBay. At that time eBay was seen by many users as a novelty. It was as much a game as it was serious. The users have wised up, matured if you will. People rarely pay inflated prices for rubbish now (unless they are being scammed).
So, as buyers have become more savvy, serious sellers have realised they can’t make a margin on anything consistently and have switched to BIN formats instead. This has compounded the problems the auction format has suffered. Couple this with the boom in satellite TV channels eating in to the ‘auction’ entertainment market, and maybe we can see the problem clearer.
I still believe there is a strong demand for quality auctions. Quality items (within their category), sensible but not suicidal start bids, well written and presented descriptions and good pictures. Such listings still attract good sport on eBay.
We have the problem (that all sites suffer) in the obvious potential fakes categories. DVDs or PC Software are typical examples. It’s pretty difficult to know whether a DVD movie is a fake until you receive it. These categories are being damaged due to buyer experience. Unless you are willing to accept a copied DVD, most sensible buyers either avoid auctions as a source altogether or stick to a very select group of proven sellers. Although it sounds severe, if I were a site manger/owner, I think I would start being a lot more demanding of sellers wishing to play in these categories.
A blanket policy in certain categories along the lines of; “due to the prevalence of unauthorised copies being listed in this category listings are only allowed by verified business customers who must apply in writing first”.
Sites can then verify the existence of the business (search at Experian maybe?) and make sure they have the correct names and addresses of all Partners/Directors etc. to hold accountable. It will hurt listing numbers but it would underpin buyer confidence. Regretfully, if these categories are going to work in future, they will need to be regulated much harder. While eBay may be able to take the odd legal action on the chin, I think Lee and many other venues would prefer not to have that potential worry!
As for the BIN format I have one firm view. The real success story in this market was eBay Stores. The success of them frightened eBay it seems. Not because of what they did as such, but because of what they would damage.
It seems perfectly logical to me that, if I were running a new venue that didn’t have a mature cash cow threatened, I would major on stores to sellers and I would market them hard and focus on visibility to buyers. My personal experience with an eBay Store was fabulous until the goal posts moved. Please don’t tell me you can’t make money charging £7 a month for hosting a few web pages, charging higher FVFs when stuff sells and lower listing fees for longer terms.
What do I think people want in a store in 2007? Basically they still want their own identity where they can establish a reputation and build a customer base. But they want all the technical stuff - shopping cart, range of payment gateways, template listing etc all laid on for them. More importantly they want the RSS feed facilities, Froogle links, and SEO code managed for them. For this they will pay and they will happily accept joint branding of their store and a sub-domain URL. If they don’t get that then even more domains will be purchased and hosted for peanuts and thousands more copies of osCommerce will be downloaded.
Another reason eBay continues to dominate the P2P sales venues is a degree of inertia driven by uncertainty. Although you may be hacked off with eBay, which alternative do you go to? Do you need to increase your workload to split your eggs across two or three alternatives? If you make a single choice will it survive? All these doubts creep in to the sellers mind when they contemplate switching and I suspect many opt for the easy choice – better the devil you know.
A number of us here at PheeBay have quietly been wishing for a ‘leader’ to emerge from the alternative venues. A force that has both the ability, and vision, to create a serious challenge to eBay either by acquiring competitors, merging or even cooperating on listing mergers or franchising ‘white labels’ of their software to potential ‘powersellers’ and alike. Whether or not such a force will emerge I don’t know but I fear that, until it does, the uncertainty inertia will continue to hinder growth and restrict revenues.
Sell through rates are a major concern for disaffected eBay sellers naturally and few alternative sites offer any great hope on this score. The main attraction for buyers is the depth of choice available on eBay. I look at the categories that interest me as a buyer on most alternatives and, frankly, quickly return to eBay where the volume of choice is far superior. While some sites do have a reasonable volume, all too often their cheap or free listing policy means a lot of these items – often virtually all - are simply way overpriced for what they are. After searching and reading for half an hour and still not finding any potential value it is oh so easy to go back to the big E to browse.
Listing fees can make sellers wary of poor sell through rates and will become that more competitive in their pricing as a result. This attracts potential buyers. I suspect this is a factor rarely considered by alternative sites that all try to compete with each other on who offers the most free features. No names, but what little experience I have on alternative sites proved to me that a lot of these sites are dumping grounds for stock that will rarely, if ever sell. Why? Why not! It costs nothing to list it.
In most walks of life I’ve experienced, long term open ended heavy discounting is a sure sign of weakness and a possible signal of potential failure. I would simply say that if a business can’t give their product away free in the numbers they want or need, they’re probably trying to distribute the wrong product or service.
I could go on but I will need to put another shilling in the bandwidth meter if I do so best leave my thoughts there for now and leave some space for others to chip in….
Graham/Sunray |
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| Private |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:06 pm |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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Full Member
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
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sunray wrote: Sites can then verify the existence of the business (search at Experian maybe?) and make sure they have the correct names and addresses of all Partners/Directors etc. to hold accountable.
Taking up this one point for the moment, I would also like to see the business details of the alternative venues in black and white - listed prominently somewhere on their sites. I have just tried to find one or two UK based St Elsewhere's via Company House records. I can't find their details registered. This could simply be due to individual site owners registering under a name that isn't immediately obvious. It would help instill confidence in the potential customer if they could see that the site in question was a 'proper' business and it would help convince (me) that they would endure.
On the point of sellers being registered as companies - I don't feel that being a LTD company is a failsafe solution. I can name 5 volume sellers who were LTD companies - but were also counterfeiters (on eBay alone).  It also penalises the sole traders unfairly (many are genuine businesses and upstanding sellers in their own right). The accountablility for DVD sellers comes when they are reported to FACT. On eBay (my only online auction venue experience thus far) many sellers vet listings in their categories and I do know that some actively report pirated DVD sellers to FACT. This seems to be a more effective route to follow than say Trust and Safety or VeRO. |
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| Passion Vine House |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:25 pm |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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Admin
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
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I'm afraid I firmly believe online auctions are a thing of the past. I will not use the auction format again, only BIN.
EBay is no longer a viable option for the serious seller. Trouble is neither are any of the alternatives at the moment, altho some show great potential.
Imagine it this way. Imagine eBay as a giant Mall in the real world, the equivalent to say, a thousand Wal Marts in one place. You give them your items to sell for you. You pay the very least amount of listing fees you can and they put your items way down the back of the Mall, about two miles from the entrance. Nobody sees your items, they don't sell. Now you pay big listing fees, your items are more prominantly displayed, they sell, you pay more fees and you end up totally disgusted as eBay has made more money than you.
Now for what I am hoping for. Specialised sites. Back to our eBay Mega Mall. Imagine a small shop next door to this Mall. It only sells items directly related to soccer. They advertise and promote their little shop. Before long all the people who are looking for soccer items are bypassing eBay to get to that little shop because they know the sellers are experts in their field, they get better value because the sellers are not padding their prices to pay high fees, they know they are getting the genuine article because it is a small shop that is well policed. Win,win, win...
How to keep scammers off a site? Have moderators who are very knowledgable in various subjects and let them police their subject.
Sorry for going on so much.  |
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| Junkyardjims |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:05 pm |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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Admin
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 1130
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TazLee wrote:
“What are your opinions on the observations made above and where do you see the future of online auctions, in both auction format and Instant Purchase format, plus any thoughts on the way to stamp out the villains and fraudsters that mar the efforts and trust of honest people.”
from a venues point of view,
from a sellers point of view
from a buyers point of view
and from a fraudsters point of view!
Lee
Having a chance to gather some thoughts, I thought i'd outline several areas, factors and problems that will perhaps be particularly influential throughout 2007.
Listing Counts
I do get the impression that many venues are focused upon quantity as opposed to quality. There's no doubt that listing totals are used as a strong indicator as to whether a venue is demonstrating growth or not. This is particularly the case with Ebay, and the constant CLDs to keep numbers up. Only today, the analysts Piper Jaffery made a call the Ebay is demonstrating stagnating listing's 'growth'. The result? Shares have taken a tumble.
The problem seems to be that EBay are not actually concerned with improving the 'buyer's experience', but rather make policy changes that are more influential on their quarter to quarter forcasts. For instance, they claimed to 'hide and hike' shops last summer to 'improve the buyers' experience'. Yet if this was to be the case then why were Gallery charges not lowered and/or scrapped? Bandwith issues maybe, but there still seems to be the time to launch bandwidth-eating projects such as 'match-ups'.
I think it is important that other sites do not make the same mistake. And to perhaps think about ways in which will result in a good QUALITY of listing, as opposed to QUANTITY (imho CLDs impair the buyer's experience). As Graham, has pointed out, the danger with free listings is that 'St Elsewheres' may result in being inundated with items that don't actually sell on Ebay, and are normally the types of product that flood EBay's listings on CLDs.
The 'Ebay clone' image.
We're absolutely guilty of promoting this notion ourselves.
Ebay is not only a company, but a 'concept' (i.e. trading online). Thus, any other sites are known as 'ebay alternatives' (as this board is titled ). Consequently, many sites try to market themselves in a similar fashion to Ebay; sometimes even down to the name (e.g. www.zbay.com...I hope it doesn't exist!). imho this is a major disadvantage. Ebay has quite an 'image problem' in the eyes of the press (and consquently much of the BUYING public) concerning the abundance of scams and fraud. Thus, maybe it is best not to market on the coat-tails of a company that breeds uncertainty and doubt. As Octavia has outlined, this is where the term 'auction site' can have dubious connotations as an outlet for fakes and frauds.
I agree with many of the others that 'auctions' are a passe concept. Ebay has cornered the market in terms of 'auctions' but really dropped the ball with BINs by 'hiding and hiking' and failing to get the 'Express' to leave the station. Thus, there's a real potential with BINs. Sellers also love BINs becaue it gives that much more degree of control and calculability over their sales; as opposed to relying on the 'unpredictability' of auctions. Furthermore, I also think BINs are more of a marketable concept to those who are concerned with fraud, as it does not potentially have the same connotations of 'dodgyness' associated with 'auctions' and 'auction sites' if you catch my drift.
Inter-site rivalries.
Not good. Competition is great as it keep everyone on their toes. Problem is i've noticed some bitter inter-site rivalries, smearing, and taunting building up in places over the net. This is incredibly unhealthy for everyone, and need to be discouraged at all costs. Maybe all auction site owners should simultaneously make an announcement regarding this?
Specialisation
I agree with Passion with the idea of specialistion. Ebay generally have a policy of 'one size fits all' (with the exception of Ebay Motors). Thus, this results in a fairly standardised approach to different categories. This is where other sites can capitalise by focusing on marketing towards a particularly target group and maybe adjusting each different category to finer details and relevance than what Ebay have done. It may also help by networking with other similar interest groups. e.g. specialistauctions.com have done this pretty well imho by affiliating with a popular football website.
Fraud and Fakes
Ebay are finally appearing to clampdown on fakesters. A good thing imho. However, this means it will be increasingly likely that they'll try their chances on other sites. It's definately getting to the stage where people will have to be employed to police listings and certain sellers.
Waffle over! |
Last edited by Junkyardjims on Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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| 0ctavias0fferings |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:12 pm |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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| Passion Vine House |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:44 pm |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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What do you think if one of the alternatives decided to charge a 'Buyer's Premiun' and no fees whatsoever for the seller?
Say it was around 5%. I go to many estate sales and auctions and as a buyer I pay 12% to 16%. I don't think twice about paying the 'auctioneer's fees', just save the paperwork for the tax man. |
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| 0ctavias0fferings |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:03 pm |
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| sunray |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:10 pm |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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Joined: 01 Jan 1970
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I'd be happy to pay a fixed monthly user account subscription, lower than eBay listing fees and FVFs around 2-5% depending what the sale price is. That way the more you use the account as a seller the better value you receive, a real economy of scale as your monthly sub doesn't increase. That said I'd like a decent joint branded store front made available on this deal too.
I also believe buyers should register and pay for an account in order to verify their card/name/location if nothing else.
I accept this may restrict numbers growth but would it restrict quality growth? |
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| Junkyardjims |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:44 pm |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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Joined: 01 Nov 2006
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I'm not entirely sure charging buyers is the way to go. Particularly as one of the main difficulties of many sites is to drive and encourage buyers there. Maybe some sort of 'loyalty scheme' for buyers may be beneficial. i.e. the more a buyers buys from somewhere, the more points that can be redeemed for discounts etc.
On the subject of 'uniting', one aspect that site owners really should co-operate on is clamping down on scammers. Maybe some sort of information exchange of names of known scammers should be shared between site owners? |
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| Gothicina |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:50 pm |
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Quote: On the subject of 'uniting', one aspect that site owners really should co-operate on is clamping down on scammers. Maybe some sort of information exchange of names of known scammers should be shared between site owners?
Maybe a database only accessible by site owners, then maybe the scammers details could be passed on to the authorities, before they're aware they've been sussed. |
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| Junkyardjims |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:00 pm |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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Admin
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 1130
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Gothicina wrote: Quote: On the subject of 'uniting', one aspect that site owners really should co-operate on is clamping down on scammers. Maybe some sort of information exchange of names of known scammers should be shared between site owners?
Maybe a database only accessible by site owners, then maybe the scammers details could be passed on to the authorities, before they're aware they've been sussed.
Good idea! |
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| Passion Vine House |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:03 pm |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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Admin
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 4030
Location: Los Angeles
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Gothicina wrote:
Maybe a database only accessible by site owners, then maybe the scammers details could be passed on to the authorities, before they're aware they've been sussed.
I think that is a great idea. However, it would only be successful if all the auction sites work together.
Back to my Vegas days...When someone does something wrong in one Casino their photo and every known detail of that person's life is immediately passed to ALL Casinos. Bad guy then gets picked up as soon as he tries to enter any Casino. |
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| 0ctavias0fferings |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:25 pm |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 7936
Location: Highlands of Scotland
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Junkyardjims wrote: I'm not entirely sure charging buyers is the way to go. Particularly as one of the main difficulties of many sites is to drive and encourage buyers there. Maybe some sort of 'loyalty scheme' for buyers may be beneficial. i.e. the more a buyers buys from somewhere, the more points that can be redeemed for discounts etc.
I like the idea of a loyalty scheme. It encourages people to come back again as long as their experiences are satisfactory.
I also think that information exchange on scammers - which would have to include isp and other identifiers (I know it can be done) - would be a brilliant idea and could probably be semi- or fully-automated as long as site owners are prepared to cooperate.
Can't see ebay buying into it but you never know ... their list ought to be the longest |
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| Gothicina |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:52 pm |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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Full Member
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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Location: Essex, UK
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Quote: I also think that information exchange on scammers - which would have to include isp and other identifiers (I know it can be done) - would be a brilliant idea and could probably be semi- or fully-automated as long as site owners are prepared to cooperate.
Once it was up & running, glitch free & sucessfully, for a pre decided period say 6, 9 or 12 months, (by then the scammers would have cottoned on something was happening anyway), it could THEN be used as a fantastic marketing opportunity for ALL the sites who take part. |
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| Junkyardjims |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:56 pm |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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I love the sound of this thread.
Some great ideas here. Keep them coming! |
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| Passion Vine House |
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Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:57 pm |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006
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Location: Los Angeles
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iwac wrote:
2) They did not do enough to police thier site to stop the fraudsters and sellers selling fakes and replicas. Therefore appearing to be a bad place to use. i say bad place as when i look at these sites I see 'Suspended ebay users'. This certainly put me off.
3) they didn't upgarde or update thier site software/script enough then when they did it was 'too late' to do any constructive advertisinfg either through media or on the net.
Resulting in seeing nothing new.
Two things really turn me against an alternative site to the extent that I scream at my monitor.
1) Owners turn a blind eye to fakes, knockoffs, replicas... This is an area that opens an auction site wide open to scammers. Cheats aligning with cheats. Why is the TOS ignored? Obviously because replicas sell and put money in the owners pocket.
2) Why do auction site owners go live with their new site before the site is ready? We get excited thinking this one is going to work out, we list our items and get the forums up and running. Then, BAM, site crashes or closes for updating or 'we are doing maintenance'. Have you noticed how hard it is to get the momentum going again. If a site is going to be 'the next best thing' it will be because a world of research has gone into it and the owner has put together something that really is workable from day one.
...But that is just what rattles my cage. |
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| sunray |
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:01 am |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 6689
Location: UK
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In my former life (mortgage lending) we used several cooperative IT systems to detect attempted fraud. There is a system in the UK called CIFAS desined to do exactly that in the lending industry. It flags up people to lenders who have been, shall we say, 'creative' in their previous finance/insurance dealings.
This area is much more of an issue in the UK becuase of our DPA (Data Protection legislation). It can be a nightmare. However, because many of the sites deal internationaly, I gather a work around can be to send thie data 'out of the UK' (handle it on a server in the US for instance). While I wouldn't want to get too controversial here on an OT matter, apart from labor costs, ask yourself why so many call centres and customer services jobs have been lost in the UK? Data here is heavily (expensively) regulated.
Loving it. Some good ideas being bounced around.... |
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| Plunderhere |
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Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:26 am |
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Online Auctions, The Future, Collective Minds.
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PheeBay Supporter
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 32
Location: UK
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What a superb mix of ideas and thoughts.
From an auction owner's point of view it is often
hard to decide whether to specialise or to run a
generic auction site to suit all people.
All sites are a bit like buyers and sellers need to
window shop,
1) Are the colours and look of the site pleasing?
2) Will my buyers of my products actually want to
sign up here and by from me?3) Is the site safe to
transact on and has a Security.certificate to safeguard
my personal info been installed.?
4) Is there good customer service.(Now this I believe
is the most important of all as customer service - or
lack of will make or break any site.)
I must add a special thankyou while I am at it to
CQout.com for without their dreadful and intensely
rude support (if I can call it that!) I would never have
been inspired to purchase Bidz UK.
Many sellers here on Pheebay offering your own niche
products have to suffer a lot of 'hits and misses' with
listing on a new auction site and it is very time consuming
but that is the investment you pay to both make money
and hopefully, enjoy what you do!
At bidz we offer a starting credit so you can test the
water and if you never make a sale you pay 'nothing'
- simple as that.
Listening to a buyers or sellers needs is paramount as
without you guys how can any business shape itself and
provide an ongoing service that suits most tastes?
Bidz will undergo a complete facelift this month to come
more into line with the look and feel of the bigger auctions
and now our traffic is booming are looking forward to a
very enjoyable 2007 and a decent growth rate.
Always remember as a seller to not put all your eggs in
one basket as buyers move like the tide and your shop
will dry up if not exposed on several sites. (or more)
That's enough for the moment as too much to write in one
hit but a superb thread.
All the best
Mark
The Bidz Team |
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